Electability?
I tried to watch last night's debate, I really did. To keep the kids from biting my ankles I put on some PBS in the living room, which meant I'd have to watch the debate on my laptop in the kitchen while making dinner.
I struggled to hear the dialogue over the sizzling in the pan and the bickering from the kids, but from what I did catch, I thought they were both incredibly strong. Of course I'd be thrilled if they could take turns in the White House. But since Hillary is no spring chicken, might I suggest age before beauty. I do still think Hillary is more electable for now. I could be wrong. Am I?
But here's the new thing: with McCain closer than ever to the nomination, I'm not sure electability matters as much as it did before. Because who in their right mind would vote for McCain? And it's not all the same ones who voted for Bush because I've heard even conservatives don't like him.
While my gut tells me electability matters a little less now (meaning Obama and Hillary might have the same chance of beating McCain), this guy says it's ALL that matters. And it sounds like he's in the Obama camp, though he doesn't admit it by name.
I've heard so little debate about all this from people I know, and I know everyone has an opinion.
On a related note, my friend told me about this quiz (there are others like it) that calculates which candidate fits you best. I thought for sure I'd fall in line with Kucinich or Obama, but Hillary turned out to be my best match (Kucinich and Edwards are no longer part of the quiz, but they were when I first took it a couple weeks ago). On the one hand I felt validated since I'm uncomfortable with the accusation that the only reason I support her is because I'm a woman. On the other hand, I must be more conservative than I claim to be. And guess who came in last as a match for me? You guessed it - McCain.
I struggled to hear the dialogue over the sizzling in the pan and the bickering from the kids, but from what I did catch, I thought they were both incredibly strong. Of course I'd be thrilled if they could take turns in the White House. But since Hillary is no spring chicken, might I suggest age before beauty. I do still think Hillary is more electable for now. I could be wrong. Am I?
But here's the new thing: with McCain closer than ever to the nomination, I'm not sure electability matters as much as it did before. Because who in their right mind would vote for McCain? And it's not all the same ones who voted for Bush because I've heard even conservatives don't like him.
While my gut tells me electability matters a little less now (meaning Obama and Hillary might have the same chance of beating McCain), this guy says it's ALL that matters. And it sounds like he's in the Obama camp, though he doesn't admit it by name.
I've heard so little debate about all this from people I know, and I know everyone has an opinion.
On a related note, my friend told me about this quiz (there are others like it) that calculates which candidate fits you best. I thought for sure I'd fall in line with Kucinich or Obama, but Hillary turned out to be my best match (Kucinich and Edwards are no longer part of the quiz, but they were when I first took it a couple weeks ago). On the one hand I felt validated since I'm uncomfortable with the accusation that the only reason I support her is because I'm a woman. On the other hand, I must be more conservative than I claim to be. And guess who came in last as a match for me? You guessed it - McCain.
posted by Anne at 8:09 PM
10 Comments:
This is an odd race all around. Conservatives aren't thrilled about McCain, and then you've got candidates all around that have aspects that have never before been tested in American politics.
As to who would vote for McCain? Independents. And that's a huge threat this election I think to the democrat side if anyone comes off as being polarizing in the final run.
My thoughts are this: I'm best aligned with Obama and would vote for him (and will be in our upcoming vote here in the next few weeks). However I'm less clear which party I'd vote for if Obama doesn't get the ticket since I do think Hillary is too polarizing. I know it's an opinion, and Bev is also voting for her because she thinks the experience is a positive.
In my case I think it's a lot of baggage. But I will say that no matter what this will by far be the most interesting election in a long time! Sorry for the book!
Thanks for your perspective, Chris!
It sounds like for you, electability matters quite a bit since you might not vote for Hillary if she were the Dem nominee.
Is McCain not polarizing? Seems like anyone who would support 100 years of war would cause quite a stir. Maybe I don't fully understand the definition in the political sense.
This will be very interesting!
Electability is certainly a factor for me... I don't think you can send a message by voting for someone with no chance. That's why Kucinich would not get my vote in a primary given his lack of a chance to be elected. I might agree with a lot of what he says but he has no chance (IMHO). I struggle with Ron Paul in the same sense.
The being said, I disagree with McCain on the war big time. McCain would be a moderate conservative, which no matter what is polarizing to someone who holds beliefs that I do :)
He supports civil unions, believes in global warming, illegal immigrant legalization, and of course no gun control and loves the war. The first three cause stomach aches in the conservative base I believe. The rest of his dossier reads like what you would think it would for the party he's part of. However the fact that he's not so hard lined makes him a candidate for moderates of either party I think. Believe me I'm not a McCain supporter but it worries me if he does become the Republican candidate. Don't get me wrong ;)
Some of the things I don't like on the Hillary side:
- She voted for the Iraq war, wants to pull out troops, but won't threaten funding
- She supports sanctions against Iran
- She voted for and renewed the Patriot Act
- Her husband passed in the DMCA and she has shown support from it as best I can tell
Sorry for the book again!
Thanks again for your thoughts, Chris. I really appreciate hearing another side and I like the details.
I should clarify that by electability I was only talking about Hillary vs Obama.
Check out this OpEd in the Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/02/opinion/02herbert.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin
I think McCain is the scariest Republican nom because he will be hard to beat. It doesn't matter that the conservatives don't like him, as Chris pointed out, the Independents do, and that terrifies me. I'm registered Independent and so can't vote in the NY primary on Tuesday, but I've heard other independents and Dems (much to my dismay) say that they would vote for McCain before Hillary or Obama. The conservatives aren't going to vote for a Dem even if they aren't crazy about McCain. If McCain draws the Independent voters, or even if he taps in to the group that won't vote for either Hillary or Obama (you know the ones we are scared of: those who think they are liberal, but who will vote for McCain while denying that the real reason they didn't vote for the Dem nom is because the nom was either a woman or a black man), we can't beat him. Electability matters and this race is going to be a nail biter.
Thanks, Em. Great points, great article (you always send me the good ones). I needed to read this:
"Anyone who thinks the Democrats are a lock to win in November has somehow forgotten about Karl Rove, the right-wing radio network, the hanging chads of 2000, the Swift boat debacle, the intimidation of black voters in Florida, the long lines of Democratic voters standing forlornly in the rain in Ohio, and on and on."
He's right and it scares me. I'm naive to think enough people want change to make it happen.
Hey Ang,
Electability is HUGE...I 100% believe it's what will make or break the Democratic party this election. As much as I respect Hillary's distinguished career, I do not believe she will unite the Democratic party. I think the bulk of Democrats are desperately ready for a leader who ignites us, who inspires us and makes us want to do better - for our country, for our environment, for our children, etc. Hillary does not do that for me, whatsoever. Edwards was my #1, as healthcare and lobbyist reform are my thing. But Obama...the more I read about him, the more I think he's got the moxie to make 2008 our year. He's charismatic, intelligent, profound, always believed the Iraq War was a poor choice, has some great ideas about healthcare and has simply made Democrats excited to be part of the process. I think that has electability written all over it. The last debate was impressive - both performed well. And it was so nice to have the bitterness placed aside. But, Obama cinched it for me, by saying from Day 1 as President, it's not about being "ready" to make decisions it's about making the right decisions...Come Feb 9th - I will be declaring myself an Obama Mama!Looking forward to seeing you on Thursday! Amy
Thanks for your comments, Amy!
It sounds like people believe Obama can beat out McCain. I hope that's right if he wins the nomination. I still think Hillary has a better chance, and for me, a BIG part of the deal is not letting the GOP win again.
Thanks for keeping me thinking! It is high time for the GOP to take a long, long, long sabbatical.
A few more of my random thoughts:
#1 Who will Edwards endorse? This could be huge.
#2 Al Gore, who will he endorse? Another big one, I think.
#3 Ralph Nader has formed an exploratory committee to see if another "run" is financially possible. He considers both Obama and Clinton to be "unacceptable" choices for the Dem ticket. How will this affect the race? Same as in 2000? Many argue it cost Gore the win (remember Florida?). Check out his website at http://www.naderexplore08.org/index.html
#4 We've got to get people to the caucus on the 9th! Whether it be Obama or Clinton, that's the way to get our delegate nomination vote counted! The WA primary does NOT COUNT, so voting on the 14th is futile. Share this with friends/family!!!
http://www.wa-democrats.org/index.php?page=display&id=266
One thing I know for sure: On Super Tuesday I just might be glued to MSNBC.
Great comments, Amy. Interesting and thought-provoking.
I have to admit I didn't know my primary vote wouldn't count at all. (Shame on me.)
Thanks for contributing to this debate!
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